tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post3390180805020261595..comments2024-01-18T12:48:27.027-08:00Comments on Shifting sands: The R documentation is badPetehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09556415961629445879noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-23811083184125564662022-04-18T23:37:40.402-07:002022-04-18T23:37:40.402-07:00LEGIT FULLZ & TOOLS STORE
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I start to learn P...This article makes a lot sense. I start to learn Python and R almost the same time. After one year, I'm very familiar with the Python now but still a total noob to R. The R documentation is good though in terms of "technology reference", but I think it conceptually somehow messed up with the "introduction" or "tutorial". For instance, if I have something unclear in Python, I go to google and always very easy to see the answers as the top links in the search result. In R, I know the help information is not for me. Then I google it, what I get? The exact same help information again! That is quite frustrating.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06689812721430412578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-65056139753835143152015-03-13T03:28:40.705-07:002015-03-13T03:28:40.705-07:00It is simply not true that only a handful of peopl...It is simply not true that only a handful of people have access to the source. The main Subversion repository is publicly readable, and is mirrored on GitHub. Only a handful of people have commit access, but that's true of every open source project.Joshua Ulrichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16641971932645230429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-13186571811307071952015-03-09T18:36:36.815-07:002015-03-09T18:36:36.815-07:00My main complaint against R, and the reason I don&...My main complaint against R, and the reason I don't use it, is that the statistical and machine learning packages (the main attraction to R, imo) all lack meaningful documentation.<br /><br /> It's most often the case that the documentation gives no idea what specific model is being fit, what optimization formulation is used, what algorithm is used, how to access the parameters, etc. References to papers are pretty useless, since you have no idea how the authors of the package implemented the algorithms. (Iirc, even the documentation for the fft function doesn't say what format the fft output is in, e.g. where the DC component is!) <br /><br />R is useful if you're willing to take the package authors at their word, and just fit a model and use it, but not interrogate or verify the algorithm it uses. Since I design and analyze machine learning algorithms, this is not acceptable (and it wouldn't be even if I were doing data analysis: I need to know what exactly my tools are to know how to interpret their output!).<br /><br />Matlab and Python, although not as concise as R in terms of the workflow, are much more fitting environments, because e.g. scikit-learn or the various files you can download from Matlab Central are much more transparent about what is going on.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509233273590036699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-66145755952583867432015-03-09T06:18:26.051-07:002015-03-09T06:18:26.051-07:00Hm, if I try to enter help("matrix") on ...Hm, if I try to enter help("matrix") on Python prompt, I get even less information than in R. So R is not that bad :)mpiktashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00263438252335043113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-71612589074136105522015-03-08T11:02:41.292-07:002015-03-08T11:02:41.292-07:00The "function safari" is awesome! Great ...The "function safari" is awesome! Great writing. I knew exactly what you meant!<br /><br />From the beginning of my experience with programming languages, the documentation has been bad. Really, I don't think it's specific to just R nor is it a new problem. I still don't know how I learned C in the early 1990s. Anyone who worked on SAS in earlier days knows how almost worthless that documentation was.<br /><br />The key to learning languages and environments is the sharing, not the documentation. This is why so much more code is being written now...it's easier to share information and to ask questions than ever before. <br /><br />I don't think experienced R users pay that much attention to the examples that are included. Even in Python, I don't pay attention to the examples in the documentation. <br /><br />Learning programming languages is hard. R is not a good, first programming language. It's better than SAS being a first language, but I'd steer newbs to C or Python because they'll develop a sense of computer science concepts in Python whereas in R it's about the numbers. <br /><br />Comparing languages and environments is good for identifying relative strengths and weaknesses of languages, but that's as far as it goes. <br /><br />Bigger problems for R are support for 64-bit integers and the early OO models. <br /><br />For intermediate to advanced users, grab a copy as quick as you of Hadley's Advanced R book. <br /><br />R is going to be around for a long time. <br />www.phillipburger.net/wordpresshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03119393541761375560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-44600835254158794582015-03-08T04:26:31.253-07:002015-03-08T04:26:31.253-07:00There are tools to try to workaround the weakness:...There are tools to try to workaround the weakness: http://www.burns-stat.com/r-navigation-tools/Pat Burnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01124965046918662397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-39922780326834588342015-03-07T20:12:42.186-08:002015-03-07T20:12:42.186-08:00Comparing R and Python is apples vs oranges IMO. I...Comparing R and Python is apples vs oranges IMO. Its not a popularity contest and I would take the bet that theres more people using python to do more stuff than R any day. <br /><br />At the moment I find it hard to recommend R to people, just because the learning curve is so steep. <br /><br />It's easy to pick up bad habits and learn to do things "the wrong way" when you end up winging things because its hard to find "the right way" to do something. <br /><br />Those bad habits can last a long time, and as people move from new users to becoming contributors or making their own packages etc, bad practises can end up having a big impact. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741423494319355835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-1193007945394599442015-03-07T20:07:46.283-08:002015-03-07T20:07:46.283-08:00Yeah I agree there are some good resources out the...Yeah I agree there are some good resources out there. Yeah the plot manual in particular gives me a chuckle now and then, looking at par and everything is lty, cex, bewildering is a good word.<br /><br />I do kinda feel I should be able to be effective in a language without having to post questions to stack exchange (or similar), esp for basic stuff. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741423494319355835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-32933396481211531362015-03-07T20:03:48.590-08:002015-03-07T20:03:48.590-08:00I too would consider myself an experienced user. M...I too would consider myself an experienced user. My issue is mostly not with the actual content of the docs, just its structure and presentation. <br /><br />I still feel the way the R docs work is quantifiably the worst out of any of the languages I use regularly (python, c++, objective c)<br /><br />We may just have to agree to disagree though :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741423494319355835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-5065801346932563512015-03-07T20:01:10.509-08:002015-03-07T20:01:10.509-08:00Yes the vignettes are a good resource too. I guess...Yes the vignettes are a good resource too. I guess what I would like to see is a nice HTML reference that has everything. <br /><br />When I am doing something new I usually start by searching on R-Bloggers, the resources are there it all just seems a bit haphazard. <br /><br />It is hard when so many contributed packages also form an important part of the ecosystem. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741423494319355835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-90132006633361642902015-03-07T19:59:13.475-08:002015-03-07T19:59:13.475-08:00Thanks yes I was not aware about that SVN thing. S...Thanks yes I was not aware about that SVN thing. Seems a bit weird tbh!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741423494319355835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-24564309512585422372015-03-07T15:10:23.691-08:002015-03-07T15:10:23.691-08:00No, you are absolutely wrong. The documentation in...No, you are absolutely wrong. The documentation in R is generally very good. As an experienced user I can't think of anything worse than sifting through reams of waffle looking for userful information. This is the same for any language. If you are looking for introductory information for beginners the internet is loaded with it.<br /><br />You might say you can't find beginner information that suits your level of proficiency and current need. However you can't say that R documentation is poor just because it doesn't suit you.Marcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04347915495402073028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-4754926858904786962015-03-07T11:29:10.210-08:002015-03-07T11:29:10.210-08:00Yes the documentation is utterly bewildering to no...Yes the documentation is utterly bewildering to noobs. It should be called a technical reference, because that is what it is, not help. Yet there are now hundreds of gentle introductions to the language. Things have improved greatly for the novice over how things were when I first explored R (about 13 years ago). <br /><br />Example of how it is a technical reference. ?plot gives you:<br />"Generic function for plotting of R objects. For more details about the graphical parameter arguments, see par."<br />Technical information that means nothing to the new user. What is an object? What does generic mean? It doesn't even define "plotting." It doesn't tell you anything if you don't already know the meaning of those terms. It assumes you have already learned the fundamentals of the language and its terminology. <br /><br />But rejoice, we now have lots of free introductory tutorials and the user friendly Stack Overflow!GoldGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07196135445768282166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-64706877581225368872015-03-07T10:18:21.070-08:002015-03-07T10:18:21.070-08:00I suppose base R doesn't have vignettes though...I suppose base R doesn't have vignettes though. But there is documentation on how base R works in a non lookup style: http://cran.r-project.org/manuals.html or http://manuals.bioinformatics.ucr.edu/home/programming-in-r or http://www.introductoryr.co.uk/R_Resources_for_Beginners.html Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17396440198980582581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-42231833603698029152015-03-07T10:12:52.641-08:002015-03-07T10:12:52.641-08:00I can see your point but I think it misunderstands...I can see your point but I think it misunderstands how to go about documenting for lookup and for process use within R. I think that the documentation system is terrific for what it's designed to do; that is be a lookup. The current system is nice because it is relatively straight forward to maintain and keeps documentation uniform. Its not the documentation's job to tell the user how to use it. That job goes to vignettes and/or README. But that's up to maintainers to include vignettes as they'r not required for CRAN submission.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17396440198980582581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-24958362977385967712015-03-07T10:11:36.934-08:002015-03-07T10:11:36.934-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17396440198980582581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-9049846181114859232015-03-07T08:43:34.763-08:002015-03-07T08:43:34.763-08:00You're absolutely right. R is definitely not r...You're absolutely right. R is definitely not rising in popularity on every measured rank chart while Python flatlines. Oh… wait… http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html #nvrmndAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06554885941747261608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902574258306547143.post-29827415287458123862015-03-07T07:34:58.208-08:002015-03-07T07:34:58.208-08:00Yes, your are absolutely correct.
BTW. that's ...Yes, your are absolutely correct.<br />BTW. that's also the reason why a lot of people are switching to python. <br />Plus, you cannot contribute to R as they have closed source behind SVN, which only a handful of people have access to.<br />Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18242285259361848562noreply@blogger.com